July 24, 2003 - He recently finished filming Ladder 49 and will soon begin work on M. Night Shyamalan's The Woods. So, Joaquin Phoenix continues being caught between love and hate. He loves making movies but he hates doing interviews. That being the case, we'll have to consider ourselves extra-fortunate that he recently took the time to talk to a group of journalists in New York.

Phoenix's latest movie, Buffalo Soldiers, opens in limited release this week. In it he plays Ray Elwood, a military clerk who attempts to anger his new superior officer (Scott Glenn – Urban Cowboy) by, among other things, going out with his daughter (Anna Paquin – X2: X-Men United).

In this two-part interview, Phoenix talks about his character, working with Ed Harris for the first time, screen-testing with Anna Paquin and... why he doesn't like doing interviews.


Q: What attracted you to your role in Buffalo Soldiers?

JOAQUIN PHOENIX: The challenge. The challenge of taking this kind of reprehensible, despicable character and seeing if I can make him, not likeable, but just watchable.

Q: Which is kind of risky.

PHOENIX: People didn't have to like him, but you just had to be able to go on this journey with him.

In most films – especially in regards to the protagonist – really from the get-go they set up some scenario that endears that character to the audience. Or imbues him with some nobility or heroism or something. And this character had none of those things, and I liked that challenge. I really was it.

Q: Unlikable, yes, but there is humor here.

PHOENIX: The humor of the piece. I know this thing is kind of dark, but compared to Gladiator and Quills and The Yards, which I had done just before this. When I got the script it was actually very funny.

Q: It's funny, because comedy isn't something that's expected here. The humor isn't overt.

PHOENIX: Exactly. It's the situational humor and it's a humor that I enjoy. I mean, it wasn't a broad comedy. And to be honest, I felt that especially following these films I just mentioned, the audiences would perhaps have a hard time with taken me doing kind of a broad character in a broad comedy. I felt like this was somewhere in between. So, that's really why.

Q: Buffalo Soldiers got pushed back for almost two years, I think it was, because of the kind of sensitive political climate around the world. And I'm wondering, what has been the reaction so far?

PHOENIX: Well, first of all, I think it's important to note that virtually every film got pushed and was affected by 9/11. I mean everything was. Honestly, I don't really know what the reaction has been.

Q: But a fair amount of people have seen it.

PHOENIX: I know that it came out in Europe, and I think critically people seemed to like it. But, to be honest, I just finished working on a movie and I don't really pay attention to anything else that's happening except what I'm working on. This is kind of the first – I did a few interviews last week and they were talking about the controversy – but this is kind of the first that I'd heard about it, because I really just don't talk to anyone when I'm working. I was all a bit surprising to me.

Q: Was it difficult waiting for all that time? This was a movie you obviously invested a lot in?

PHOENIX: Yes, but I always say this – and I think people always hate me for saying it, especially studio execs – but, I don't really care much about a movie when I'm done working on it. Just because the reason that I make movies is because I enjoy the process of acting. I don't really make movies because I want to see my face on a billboard or because I want to get good reviews or have a big box office. That doesn't really matter to me at all.

Q: Any particular reason?

PHOENIX: When I'm done with a movie I've learned to let go of it and just to move on to my next character, because there are changes that occur that you have no control over. And you have to learn to just walk away. The editing of the film, the marketing of the film, the distribution of the film, they are all things I have absolutely no say in. And so I have to completely walk away from it and divorce myself from it, or else I'd probably get really angry.

Q: How do you feel about doing this kind of press then? Or having your picture taken all the time, that kind of thing?

PHOENIX: I don't enjoy it just because I don't like really being in the spotlight. I mean, I don't like sitting at a table with seven or eight people asking me questions and kind of listening to what I'm doing – scrutinizing my thoughts and things like that. I just don't like it. I can't understand how anyone would. So, it's something that I endure.

Q: How did you relate to the character, Ray Elwood. I mean, could you relate to this guy?

PHOENIX: Not really. It's not important for me to relate to the character at all. I mean, I think most of my characters... I don't know if I could really relate to them or that I even like them. I guess it's important to understand their motivation.

Q: Well, what was the point where you might have said, "I know where this guy is coming from?"

PHOENIX: I think a lot of it really was in the screenplay. The character was really well developed in the script.

I don't know how to explain it because I've tried to before, but there were a couple lines in the script that when I read it aloud to myself I had the mini-epiphany about who Elwood was and how he spoke, and I'm not entirely sure how that process happened. I mean, it seems to change every time. Sometimes a character is really based on research that you do. Other times it's just based on your imagination or perhaps your conversation with the director. Or sometimes all of the above. It depends on the movie and character.

Q: Anna Paquin said that you're so committed to what you do and so dedicated to your craft that she found you inspiring. Who maybe inspires you?

PHOENIX: Oh my God. I can't believe she said that. I told her to say that. I didn't think she was really going to do it, though.

What did she say? I just want to hear it again (he laughs).

Q: She said you were so convincing.

PHOENIX: Oh, no. Come on. That's ridiculous.

I think that actors, when they're at their best, it's when they're working together and they inspire each other.

It's funny because I quite literally said the same thing about Anna in my last interview. And I was saying that I'd go in and do these readings with about four girls, and she was the one that when she came in... I forgot about what kind of character I'm trying to play and what I'm doing. I just was in this scene with here, and the way that she approached her character was inspiring to me. And I think that when you see actors that have good chemistry and they're working well together, you can see that they're pushing each other. We had a lot of that on this film.

Q: As for commitment, there's Scott Glenn and Ed Harris.

PHOENIX: Scott Glenn... talk about being committed to his character. He came in as Sgt. Lee and left as Sgt. Lee. I'm still curious to meet Scott (he laughs). I'm looking forward to that happening one day.

And Ed Harris... who I just can't say enough nice things about, as a man and as an actor. He's so cool. I was really excited about working with him.

He's brilliant because – we'd been shooting for two weeks, and he goes in to do his first scene on his first day, and I kind of snuck in to watch from the side because I wasn't in the scene, and... every time he does a take – at the same point, the same line – he flubs his line. And everyone is kind of looking down, and I'm thinking, "Oh my God. This is so embarrassing. He's a genius actor and he's falling apart."

And then I saw the movie, and it was all for the character (he laughs), he just didn't tell anybody. It was just that same place where he was reading the speech that he was trying to memorize, and he messes it up at the beginning. And he did that, and it just shows his commitment to the character – it's not worrying about what other actors are thinking or what the crew is thinking. It's just being creative for the character. And that's an amazing thing. I was really impressed with it, and then felt like a jerk for ever doubting him (he laughs).

Q: You guys don't do comedy too often, so with Ed Harris, you don't really expect if from him either, do you?

PHOENIX: No (he laughs). I know, but that's what was so exciting about it. I knew that they were offering him Sgt. Lee. And when Gregor [Jordan, the director of Buffalo Soldiers] told me that he was really pushing to be Berman, it really excited me.

I think anytime an actor feels passionate about a character, especially if it's a character that's not necessarily recognizable to them in their previous work, then you stand a good chance of really creating something unique. I think Ed certainly did that, and it's such a joy to watch him in this movie. Really, my favorite scenes are with him.

Q: Why did you decide to become an actor? When did you first know that this was what you wanted to do?

PHOENIX: I think initially it really wasn't a conscious thing. I was young and it kind of was what my older siblings were doing. And so I just wanted to do it as well.

I don't really remember being completely conscious of wanting to do it until To Die For. I'd taken this break after I did a movie called Parenthood, for about three years, and I had the vague sensation of missing something, but I had no ideas what it was. I assumed that it was the typical 16-to-18, what-am-I-going-to-do-with-my-life kind of thing that everyone seems to go through.

Q: To Die For brought you back?

PHOENIX: Once I'd done To Die For, I felt such a sense of fulfillment in working that I realized that is what had been missing and it was what I wanted to continue to do.

I don't know if I can really articulate what it is that keeps me coming back, except it's just reaching these moments of understanding when you're trying to solve this puzzle with all of the characters, or it's the theme of the film. And when you're successful in doing that it's the greatest feeling in the world.

I love that feeling, and I will do twenty horrible scenes that I completely fail at just to have that one where you hit it. I guess that's why I keep going back.

Q: This movie pegs such a particular time in history, to even a certain day, and I'm wondering, in researching your character did you go back and listen to certain music or watch any movies or read any books that were popular at that time.

PHOENIX: Music. But, no, nothing else. I just got box sets (he laughs). You know what I mean, you go out and you get '87 to '89. Whoever the hell it was... Oingo Boingo? (He laughs.)

Q: You guys weren't particularly strict about being soldiers in the film. I mean, of course you guys aren't soldiers, but in this case it really worked for the film.

PHOENIX: Exactly! That was something that... well, we had this military advisor and I basically spent my entire time with him just seeing what I could get away with. Which is what Elwood would do (he laughs). I mean, regulation hair length is an inch, so he has to have an inch-and-a-half. I made sure that I had an inch-and-a-half. And I tried to make sure that I would unbutton certain buttons on my jacket, and it would infuriate him. You wouldn't believe it! (He laughs.) This guy would come in and he would be, "No! What are you doing! Button-up!"

I am just so much fun to talk to. (He laughs)

Q: What do you have there?

PHOENIX: This is some of our research material. You know, so if anything ever came up I was going to actually show that we weren't making up this stuff.

Q: The stuff about what happens on the military base [in Germany]?

PHOENIX: Yeah, this is just about, you know, the years from '80 through '90, and it talks about homicides on base and suicides and stuff about stolen weapons and missiles.

Going in to something this, when I read [the book] I thought, What a wild imagination Robert O'Connor [the author] has. And then, finding out that a lot of these events were based on real events was pretty shocking. Still, it's something we really wanted to be certain of. And so that's what we did. Yabba-dabba-doo!

Q: Even if the events were real and they actually took place in some way or another, even from the very beginning it's not exactly a flat real movie. There's something very heightened about it. It starts in a dream. And even the first death that happens – everyone is so blasé about this man having died. Certainly that could not have been exactly the way it played. But it serves the story. It serves the ultimate truth of the story. Is it harder for you as an actor to play to that heightened sense?

PHOENIX: It's just completely different. I enjoy both things. I enjoy playing fantastical characters and one's that are more of our imaginations and aren't really grounded in reality, as much as I like playing characters that are wholly authentic and very real.

Q: Tell us, if you're allowed to, about the project that you have coming up... The Woods. Do you start shooting in September.

PHOENIX: Yeah, I think I can only say that Night Shyamalan is directing it and Bryce Howard is in it.

Q: What about your character? What are you doing?

PHOENIX: (He laughs.) I can't talk about it.

Q: Does the guy have a name?

PHOENIX: Green Eyes.

Q: You're working with Night again though.

PHOENIX: Yeah, I can't wait! We talked about it when we were doing Signs.

I find that I've been really fortunate with the directors I've worked with. I can honestly say, I think maybe except for one out of fifteen, I'd work with every single one of them again. And, with every director I've worked with, we always talked about working again. You know, "If you find something, let me know." Vice versa.

Night started talking to me about [The Woods] while we were shooting Signs. And I was like, 'Oh, he just really wants me to finish the movie feeling good.' And, you know, he's just going to act like he wants me to work again just so I'd finish and I'd do a good job. And I thought I'd never hear about it again (he laughs). And then he called me and he was like...

[here, Phoenix offers an uncanny impression of Shaymalan's voice]

"So, I got a script comin' to you. Read it and tell me what you want to do."

I was like, "Wow! OK."

So I read it. And I said, "Yeah!"

Q: You've done a good range of characters. Do you get any particular satisfaction playing a particular type of role?

PHOENIX: Nope. What I love about acting is the multiple experiences that I can have. I really don't have a preference. I think probably whatever movie I'm working on... I think that that movie I'm doing is the most important and the best character. And then when I'm done with it, I go, "Aah, whatever."

Steve Head

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